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sjvsworldtour wrote:I don't want to discourage anyone by saying something won't work so forgive me if I was a little too blunt with over-unity. I have always heard that the people saying something can't be done need to get out of the way of people doing it. I am just pretty certain with the over-unity stuff and don't want to see someone waste their time with it.

Absolutely, thats what science is all about, no absolute certainties. In fact, every time someone starts talking about having solved this problem, I watch for news about it like crazy.... it's just that so far, it has always turned out to be a con.

As far as energy goes, I am most looking forward to what improvements nano-tech is bringing to solar cells and batteries!

Calvin wrote:Absolutely, thats what science is all about, no absolute certainties. In fact, every time someone starts talking about having solved this problem, I watch for news about it like crazy.... it's just that so far, it has always turned out to be a con.

As far as energy goes, I am most looking forward to what improvements nano-tech is bringing to solar cells and batteries!

"Free energy" is impossible. Period. It goes against the laws of nature. Mass, matter, and energy can neither be created nor destroyed only converted from one form to another. That is the law of conservation of energy. Note, it's a LAW, not a theory. Meaning it has NEVER been disproved and has enough scientific backing that it is taken as a FACT. It has been proven true, over and over and over again.

Now, extracting energy from renewable things is a better objective to set your sights on. Figure out a better way to absorb the suns rays, or a better way to harness the wind's power. If that happens, we could be less dependent on fossil fuels.

It's the outside the box thinking that is needed. Like harnessing the power of the waves, or the ocean currents. That kind of stuff is what we need to think of. Even harnessing the power of bacteria that eat CO2 and produce O2 (if such bacteria existed) would be cool.

I'm sorry if I sound combative, but as a scientist I see things in terms of force diagrams and numbers and equations. Sure, I can think around all the stuff I've learned, but it still is a great base for thinking of other projects that may or may not challenge my teachings.

Calvin wrote:I think d13rce is talking about energy from magnets... like some kind of over-unity, perpetual motion device... doesn't work that way.

MIIITTTTTHHHH!!!! PERPETUAL MOTION IS A MITTTTTTHHH!!!!! THE LAWS OF PHYSICS DO NOT ALLOW SUCH INPROPERTIES AS PERPETUAL MOTION! Now can we please move off of that topic?

Discussions of over-unity and why it isn't possible is fine with me. There are things to be learned. For instance, if you were talking extracting energy storage in a magnet, well, that would be cool, but not over-unity. It would be just like a chemical or nuclear reaction where energy is released. I really doubt there is a way to do it with magnets, but the discussion is interesting.

What really is to be gained from so called over-unity machines is really just the ability to efficiently store energy. That is usually what is occurring in the machines you can find on youTube. Energy isn't being created. It is just being stored. If you store it more efficiently, it will last longer, but eventually conservation of mass/energy becomes apparent.

How about extracting energy from the pull of the moon?

I'm thinking maybe something floating in the ocean that moves up and down with high and low tide. It could VERY slowly turn something, and it'll go on forever, right? (Well, at least until the moon spins out of orbit with the earth, since it's getting further away.)

corrado33 wrote:"Free energy" is impossible. Period. It goes against the laws of nature. Mass, matter, and energy can neither be created nor destroyed only converted from one form to another. That is the law of conservation of energy. Note, it's a LAW, not a theory. Meaning it has NEVER been disproved and has enough scientific backing that it is taken as a FACT. It has been proven true, over and over and over again.

How do you know it's impossible? How do you know the extents of the laws of nature? Are you sure matter and energy can't be created or destroyed, and how are you sure of this?
Just because you have not seen a black swan, does not mean black swans do not exist, even if it seems impossible. I am fairly sure that the law's of science are sound... but there must always be doubt, or you might miss something amazing.

here, I'll let Feynman say it.. he does it best:

I am really glad about debate on here regards harnessing the force produced by 2 opposing magnets.

Force-movement-energy. Thus an energy that when harnessed due to it's long serice life would produce a very efficient method to help power our world.

I am a bit disapointed at the negativity regards the laws of the world. Not long ago we believed that an atom was made up of only a neucleus, electrons and protons but now with the use of hadron collider it is now known that there are smaller parts that make up these components. Science is not black and white. we will alway discover new technologies and different/better ways to perform tasks.

I hope to be the first to trully utilise the power of magnets to create perpetual motion. yes I know it wont last for ever....... but it will be the best source of energy we will have. I don't want it to be a replacement for other energies. I think there are a lot of other good solutions to the energy/global crisis.

Lets try to be positive when it comes to folk with dreams and imagination.

D.

I tried to make a perpetual motion machine when I was 6 using wood, wire coat hangers, some small weights, etc. I didn't know it was called "perpetual motion" at the time, and I didn't know it was impossible. I soon learned from experience that it didn't work as my mind had hoped.

If you want perpetual motion, you can have it in space. Set something spinning in space and it will spin basically forever, until it hits something. There is no friction, and no gravity of concern, so you can have your nearly perpetual motion. However, you will not be able to create power from this. As soon as you add a stationary magnet, or coil, and turn the rotating piece into a stator, you've just induced friction. Not just a little bit of friction, considerable friction. If you've ever turned a generator of any size, you'll know that producing electricity takes power. There are power plants in the US that go through 30,000 tons of coal every day to turn giant turbines to power our luxury lifestyles. You're not going to recreate this without adding power into the mix.

So if you want to set out and try to extract magnetic power, or create the perfectly balanced machine, then go for it. You'll likely solidify your knowledge in other areas while doing so. We've all spent time thinking of perpetual motion at one time or another. But these ventures need to be separate from projects where people are actively creating power from the resources around them.

BTW...I ♥ Richard Feynman.

Calvin wrote:How do you know it's impossible? How do you know the extents of the laws of nature? Are you sure matter and energy can't be created or destroyed, and how are you sure of this?
Just because you have not seen a black swan, does not mean black swans do not exist, even if it seems impossible. I am fairly sure that the law's of science are sound... but there must always be doubt, or you might miss something amazing.

Yes, and even with our advances in science we've never disproved the law of conservation of energy. With today's energy crisis, don't you think we would have figured out free energy if it was possible? If it is possible to get energy from nothing... where does it come from? If we constantly got FREE energy, where would it go? We'd be flooding our "system" the earth with energy just floating around. Do you think it'd just disappear? Just take the time and think about it. Magic does not exist.

Imagine it this way. The universe is a full glass of water. You live in this glass of water. You are trying to get more water, where does it come from? The fact is, it doesn't. And if you say "out of the glass", I'd understand that, but that wouldn't be free energy, it'd just be getting it from an outside source.

And I will counter your "just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist" with a "just because you've thought of it doesn't mean it does exist." The FACT is, there is hundreds, maybe thousands of years of scientific evidence to backup the law of conservation of energy, and NONE to disprove it. Not even a HINT that it may be false.

So please, let's keep this thread to tangible projects that we can actually use now. If you want to start another thread, please do so.

So, to stay on topic. I bought solar panels yesterday. 25 4x4in ones. I plan on hooking them in series to make a solar panel capable of 12.5v at 2 amps. That will be used to charge some car batteries.

I don't believe in discouraging people. This isn't something to argue. You let people know that conventional logic says it is impossible. But then it is up to them to use their creativity how they see fit.

As you get older you see facts change. I was taught in school at one point which part of the tongue senses what, such as sweet or sour. There was a theory of different kinds of taste buds that was later proven false.

Back in the 70s we also heard a lot about global cooling and why pollution caused it. Throw in the idea of a nuclear winter, and it was a very exciting time.

Also, Einsteins theory of relativity has it's limits. Einstein died pursuing his theory of everything.

I can't recall the name at the moment, but it wasn't long ago radiation was found to exit black holes. I believe Stephen Hawking is the one that came up with that idea.

Experimenting is a good thing, even if most people believe what you are doing won't work. Yea, it might not work, but you will learn stuff along the way.

By the way, the generator example is great. I believe you can see in Jaimie's videos the generator slow down when he used a power tool. It shows why people that thinking a alternator creates energy are wrong. All a alternators do is transform energy from mechanical to electrical. The fact that the spinning wire isn't touching the magnets doesn't mean there is no load put on what is spinning by using the current induced.

Ah, I could talk on this a lot, but please don't discourage people from learning for themselves. When I was more into math I liked to derive equations to see why they work. Was it a waste of time? I don't think so.