jamius.com

On the surface this probably belongs under “Talk about the world”, but it’s importance, I think, warrants SUPER SERIOUS STUFF!
One of my biggest fears is the state of the environment, where it is going, and what humanity is going about it. From what I’ve seen, the environment’s in bad shape, getting worse, and many of the people in power don’t seem to care.
Exhibit 1: Overpopulation

Please do yourself a favor and watch this series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY (Part 1 of 8)
Basically Dr. Bartlett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Bartlett check his accolades, he’s not just some crackpot) says in no uncertain terms that humanity is doomed unless he acknowledge the consequences of overpopulation. It’s exponential, so the more people we have now, the more we’ll have next year and so on. Cities will get more overcrowded, land will become scarce and resources will be used up more quickly.

Exhibit 2: Global Warming
From the guy hosting the above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF_anaVcCXg
This guy is only a high school science teacher, so call him a crackpot if you want, but at least fault his logic before you do. He has spent the past few years making the series of videos to stress the importance of Global Warming and how, while we debate it, it’s only getting worse. But don’t take his word for it, research it yourself if you don’t believe in it, or even if you do. And spread the word.


This is why I am so inspired by Jamie. He’s not just trying to leave the world as he found it, he’s actually trying to make it better.
And just so this post isn’t too depressing, here’s a quote from Norman Borlaug, possibly the greatest humanitarian of all time (seriously, look him up):
"Reach for the stars. Although you will never touch them, if you reach hard enough, you will find that you get a little star dust on you in the process."

Hmmm... I want to precede my statement by saying I haven't researched this stuff thoroughly.

I watched the global warming video, because I highly doubt there will be limits on how many children you can have any time soon. I think China does, but different governments have different amounts of control if you will.

Anyway... Like the crackpot teacher said... The earth will do fine on it's own. We know the earth has been warming since forever (even before man). We know it goes through ice ages every so many thousand years because of climate change. I believe we also know hominids have survived through an ice age. (Or my view of a caveman is way off )

My opinion is that we are too dependent on fossil fuels to change it. Could you imagine the change that would have to happen? It's way too EASY for people NOT to change. Why buy an expensive hybrid when you can buy a very cheap gas powered car that gets 3/4 the MPGs? Even better yet is diesel cars! So unless a change is mandated and FORCED on the people, it'll never happen.

Also, there are much worse "offenders" to global warming than the people. You and me hardly make a difference. It's big industries and peat fields in the middle of nowhere and cows that are the big polluters. What is easier... making millions of (strong willed, hardheaded, afraid of change) people change individually, or change hundreds of thousands of big plants?

I personally think it'd be much easier to change the big industries than to change... for example... cars. There are WAY more cars than big industry plants.

With that said, I would like to be green. When I build a house I'll try my best to use solar and wind and geothermal power (in whatever form is possible). But, I don't look at it as a way to save the world (because in the end my tiny contribution will make no difference). I look at it as a way to save money, as terrible as that sounds. And I don't think I'm alone in that statement either. I bet at least half of the people interested in alternative energy are doing it for the money.

Anyway, that is my OPINION. So take it as such please.

Well folks, back in the 70s we had global cooling and the threat of a nuclear winter, so I'm not going to get extremely worked up about it. The earth goes through it's cycles and I am uncertain how much influence man actually has upon them. We are pretty arrogant to think we can destroy the plant. Sure, we might destroy the environment so bad that human life no longer exists on earth, but look at the good side. The earth will still be here and just fine.

Well said, I really laugh at the more ignorant environmentalists, of which I know a few. The people that worry about the world, to make themself look cool, whilst being completely ignorant of the situation. There are some that go screaming: "We've got to SAVE the world!" and "Can't you see what you are doing to our planet?!"

I've entered discussion with one of them and he really believed we could destroy this planet and all life on it.

I'm sorry, but if the planet in question can withdure this...



... actually believing teeny tiny humans can destroy an planet of its own, is little bit far off. And believing we could elminate all life is also just plain stupid. But I do believe humanity has the potential to destroy itself, and I would hate that to happen. Since the Agricultural Revolution, mankind has become 'weaker' as we adapted our environment to our wishes instead of adapting ourselves to the environment. What if we could lose this ability? All these kids living in a bubble of fake bullshit these days, I don't see them rebooting civilisation if it suddenly went wrong. As for me, I'm also going green to save money and to become independent from big corporations. Not because 'every tiny bit counts', like sjvsworldtour said. I believe that little setence is a lie, it's like they evoke guilt to get away with it.

I didn't mean to imply that humans are going to destroy the world, this isn't some Wachowski movie, but I do think we have the influence to effect the world as we know it. The planet will be fine in the long run, sure, and humans aren't going to die out, but I think it's possible that if things continue the way they do then in our lifetime we will see big changes in lifestyle. I mean if the AAAS and NAS are so concerned about it, then it seems like we should be too. And as for being too small, I don't know if that's true. Humanity has already changed the face of the globe just on small scale projects, so I think it's within the realm of possibility that we could effect the atmosphere when you take into account the whole human population. The Earth will bounce back, of course, but at what cost to our lifestyle in the meantime? And it's not like it would be difficult to help the problem. If 50 million people walked an extra mile instead of driving their car, we'd save about 2 million gallons of gasoline right there (and get some exercise too). And it's not just about the atmosphere and pollution, it's about saving resources. If we use less gas, there is more petroleum to make plastic which could be used to create more energy efficiency devices. That ties right back to limited resources. People need to realize that even if we can get all the energy we need from the sun, we aren't getting any significant materials and resources. We only have so much soil and water so we can't just keeping growing as a species. Literally, we can't. Something will happen that will cull the flock, as it were. Of course I'm not mandating a sterilization program or anything, I just think people should be aware of it. That way maybe they'll stop and think about the cramped slums of the third world countries and realize the population is just getting bigger before they decide to have an eighth child.

I didn't mean to imply you are such a person at all. I really agree with your views, but I just regret that some environmentalists/hipsters know nothing about the subject. Overpopulation is going to be a real issue and especially the newly industrialized countries that are going to put a stress on resources as they all adopt a Western lifestyle. I believe that will be the turning point, actually.

I don't mean to sound like I am against the environment. I am more against scare tactics, especially since the facts change over time. I like the idea of being environmentally conscious and self sufficient because I believe it makes the world a better place in a lot of ways.

I know this seems a little of topic but ill just go for it. I think by now everybody has heard of The Zeitgeist Movement, if you haven't not to worry as i will only be using them as an example.

This small group of people have a complete focus on about what is being discussed here. Now if the principles of this group could be applied. There would be a lot less trouble to worry about. I am in no way saying that they are 100% correct and we all must obey. However trawling through the solutions that many individuals and groups have come up with, this group seems to have the best concepts.

I would like to read responses from people with their opinions. Personally speaking i think this has the most potential so far.
So yeah responses would be great.

RedhairedDood wrote:I know this seems a little of topic but ill just go for it. I think by now everybody has heard of The Zeitgeist Movement, if you haven't not to worry as i will only be using them as an example.

This small group of people have a complete focus on about what is being discussed here. Now if the principles of this group could be applied. There would be a lot less trouble to worry about. I am in no way saying that they are 100% correct and we all must obey. However trawling through the solutions that many individuals and groups have come up with, this group seems to have the best concepts.

I would like to read responses from people with their opinions. Personally speaking i think this has the most potential so far.
So yeah responses would be great.

I'll save you guys a search... here's the description from wiki.

The core idea advocated by TZM is the replacement of current civilization with a money-free and cybernated "resource-based economy".[5] The Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project promote replacing human labour with automation, government will be through collective participation of the public, aided by advanced cybernation.[5][6][7] According to the movement, there will be no decision-making process regarding greater social issues by human beings, those decisions are arrived at by using the scientific method, based on the carrying capacity of the Earth, rather than using human opinions.[8] The replacement of human decision making by artificial intelligence is termed 'Social Cybernation'.[9] Private property will not be abolished, but it will become obsolete as culture grows, being replaced by "a system of universal access".[10]

So basically, make decisions based on scientific method. Use lots of automation (I'm thinking farming ect), and eventually replace all decision making with artificial intelligence?

I'm all for automation. There are so many jobs that could easily be done by machines. But that'd put too many people out of work...

And no, sorry, I like my stuff. Whether it's a dome in the woods, or a car on the street, it's comforting to know that you OWN something, and if something happens, that thing is YOURS. I don't think I could do away with that feeling.

I do think that technology is the answer to a lot of problems. Technology taking people's jobs should just allow them to do more cool stuff. The big thing is, we need to enable people to be successful and do cool stuff.