jamius.com

Nexus, I'm not especially fond of your rather long posts... but I do generally agree with you. Society is something that benefits us all, even those who believe that they have opted out.

Fact 1 ) Living partially off grid is good slightly better for the environment.

The environment is not part of my goal. I don't mind being a burden on the environment as much as everyone else. Jaimie and I differ on that.

Fact 2) But by doing so you are invariably part of other peoples tax burden....the moment you walk into a civilized store, hospital or even go online someone else is paying the bill for your easy access to these goods and services.

People living partially off grid do about as much damage to the environment as someone on welfare and the parasitic load on the tax system is almost the same if they are accessing roads, shops, the internet, schools, hospitals, have a car, gas, electricity or water supply....yes really !

This makes no sense.
Off the grid means I don't use electricity or water produced by society. I do not go the school. I pay for roads, internet, hospital bills, items from shops, a car, and gas out of pocket. Not by way of tax.So then how am I a parasite?
Society is a parasite on ME, because I pay for my own things, yet have to pay additionally for strangers.

I didn't expect to have to explain this on Jaimie's forum. You calling us parasites is being misinformed and not very nice.

OK, for instance... why should I pay for schools, when I have no children? I don't benefit from schools!

But it turns out that if you educate the kids, all the kids, fewer of them turn into criminals. So your tax dollars that pay for schools are really also paying to reduce crime in your locale. Also smarter kids means better local culture, better economy.

Scodiddly wrote:OK, for instance... why should I pay for schools, when I have no children? I don't benefit from schools!

But it turns out that if you educate the kids, all the kids, fewer of them turn into criminals. So your tax dollars that pay for schools are really also paying to reduce crime in your locale. Also smarter kids means better local culture, better economy.

What a horribly inefficient way to reduce crime.
If you think that is a good idea, then you pay for it. And ASK me to chip in, don't FORCE me.

Nexus7, can you make your own thread to post all that stuff please. This thread is about finding a place to live with personal freedom.

Sigurd wrote:

Scodiddly wrote:OK, for instance... why should I pay for schools, when I have no children? I don't benefit from schools!

But it turns out that if you educate the kids, all the kids, fewer of them turn into criminals. So your tax dollars that pay for schools are really also paying to reduce crime in your locale. Also smarter kids means better local culture, better economy.

What a horribly inefficient way to reduce crime.
If you think that is a good idea, then you pay for it. And ASK me to chip in, don't FORCE me.

Schools are cheaper than prisons. And I don't see you complaining about paying for prisons.

And therefor you have the right to steal my money to pay for it?

I'm not forcing you to pay for my lifestyle, so don't force me to pay for yours.

Seriously, why are you guys posting here? If you disagree with Jaimie's lifestyle, why are you on his forum? This is the kind of negative crap Jaimie talked about being so sick of in his videos. Let us live how we want.... you can have the other 95% of the planet.

Wow the government's indoctrination camps really did a number on you.

We are not against a high-tech society and we do not mind paying for one. Every luxury we have today, can be built, maintained, and expanded by a FREE MARKET. We pay for what we use.

Get it through your thick skull that we are NOT parasites, we PAY FOR STUFF. What we oppose is general taxes that are not specified for a particular use. I do NOT want my money spent on wars, foreign aid, bailouts, or subsidies for modern art.

I DO see the benefits of food, tools, roads and cars. That's why I pay for them! You don't hear me complaining about that.

You haven't woken up at all. You have been indoctrinated to believe that the current socialist state system is the only way we can live. It's you who is running to "mammas skirt" aka the state.
Civilization != taxes and laws

Do you enjoy coming here just to make people miserable?

Jeeze Nexus7, I don't have time right now but I'm gonna have to respond to all that stuff you posted, suffice it to say I don't agree with you at all. I think all interactions between rational beings should be voluntary. Sure, the current state of the world would never work that way but let's be honest; the current state of the world is not that great.

This video is pretty close to my point of view (voluntaryist)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLCEXtpTNYU

I'll be back...

Sigurd wrote:Seriously, why are you guys posting here? If you disagree with Jaimie's lifestyle, why are you on his forum? This is the kind of negative crap Jaimie talked about being so sick of in his videos. Let us live how we want.... you can have the other 95% of the planet.

The reason we're here is to have honest discussions about tools, building stuff, etc. I don't like things going political any more than you do, but it does happen when we're talking about communities and how they differ.

And to be blunt, if I saw you using a power tool in an unsafe manner I'd say something about it. Same thing for wanting to find some libertarian utopia, which I'll bluntly say won't exist. Laws and building codes don't get created by somebody's whim; all those rules were fought over and usually started when somebody got hurt or killed. The original British colonies here in America were in fact private business ventures... it didn't take all that long before they became the kind of government we have now, for the simple reason that the corporate version of things wasn't getting the job done.