jamius.com

Hey guys, long time no talk, I've been busy (but not with any cool projects.)

Anyway, I've decided that I want to go back to school, and I'm taking my GREs in less than a week (I should be studying). Anyway, if I do well enough to go to the grad school I want (in colorado), I'm going to build a dome. People tell me I'm crazy, people tell me I'll never do it. But I REALLY want to.

I'm very much mechanically inclined, so I'll have no problem BUILDING it, but I have some questions for jaimie specifically (or anyone else who can answer them).

First off, what is the legality of building something without permits? Is building a dome different? I know this is probably an avoided topic here, but I really want to know. I mean sure if you live on 10 acres and no one will ever bother you then who cares right?

Secondly, what does jaimie do about sewage? I know he has a toilet, but where does it go? What is the proper way of getting rid of it without having a sewage tank?

Thirdly, when jaimie built his foundation, how did he do it? How has it held up? It looks pretty thin in the pictures. What was all of the crushed rock for under it? Drainage?

Forth, jaimie, how did you attach the dome to the foundation? Did you think about putting bars INTO the cement, then building off of those?

Fifth, what's the whole deal with the rage about electrical conduit? The cheapest I can find for 1.5 inch is a dollar a foot. I can find thicker 1.78 in galvanized pipe with a thicker wall for .49c a foot...

Sixth, how are the FLOORS attached to the sides of the dome (second and third story)? How much weight can they hold? Should you put a beam in? (Obviously not for the trampoline floor, which is an awesome idea.)

Seventh, as the domes get bigger, how thick should the pipes used to build it be? What's a good dome size to pipe size ratio?

Eighth, I know for the dome part of jaimie's silo, as I like to call it, uses pieces that stick OUT from the pentagons and hexagons (they don't meet on the same plane as the pentagon itself.) This is done to get the curve of the dome. What about for the tube part? Do those need to stick OUT as well?

Ninth, has anyone ever built a dome with a basement? I'm thinking this would be cool because you could have an underground chiller to keep things fresher than they would be if they just sat out. Obviously I'd have to use cinderblocks for the walls or something, then use the bars for the dome part above ground, but that's easy enough.

Tenth, the press.... I'm thinking that I could build a press that has a cutter/presser/puncher in one (since the all operate on the same principle). The question I have is, how do you get things made to go into the press to press the shape you want? Obviously I can't make them cause they'd just break. Like, the molds almost. They'd be called molds if I was doing a cast.

Ok, I think that's enough for now....

I can help answer some of this, probably most of this if I was more interested.

Legality of building.. varies. Entirely. By country, state, county, jurisdiction. It could be anything from no regulations to nothing but regulations. Sometimes they can make you tear it down, sometimes they can put a lean on your property (can't sell it) until you fix it. Sometimes they'll fine you.

Sewage, I don't know what he does, but what is common is called a "septic tank". Look it up. Basically, you dig a big pit, and then have branches that extend out from it at 90 degrees. You lay pipes with holes in them (septic pipes, cheap plastic) into the branches, one each. Basically, all the branches help the ground to soak up moisture without becoming saturated. That's most of it. The rest just naturally decomposes, more or less into nothing, consumed by the horde of bacteria dining at your poop buffet. It never needs to be emptied, but if your water table rises (floods, ground saturation) it can back up into your building. You can imagine how fun that is. There is a little simple cheap box you can get to prevent it from backflowing, but it's not all that popular. Septic's don't really like food garbage or paper, they basically handle water and poop best, the rest only so so. Soaps and detergents kill the bacteria, which is what breaks it down. Anything too aggressive and your septic will need pumping, which is where a pooptruck comes and vacuums septic empty. Sometimes people flush "grey water" which can be shower water, and pee water, into gardens or elsewhere, and direct only the toilet to the septic. Almost everywhere with no sewage uses septics. Farms, ranches, rural places, etc. Alternatively, you have an outhouse, and everything that's not in an outhouse can just get pumped onto a field or dumped in a creek.

Foundation, I don't remember what he did. Also, it's a good time to point out what Jamie did isn't what you should do. He picked the solution that was right for his location and geography and climate, (and budget, skills, etc). Crushed rock was for drainage, yes. Sitting water is bad.

Electrical conduit.. I dunno. Probably because it's plentiful and galvanized. It's garbage for structural support though, it's dead-soft so that it can be easily bent and shaped. Galvanized toprail (for chain link fences) is probably better, can even find this stuff used.

Floors. In Jamie's, they're not really attached too too much, so much as built up from the foundation. There's a few places they're resting on the frame it looks like.

Pipe size. Hrm. Engineering question. Domes are strong. You can probably use whatever reasonable pipe size you want, to get a big dome. A more important (and probably more linearly proportional and easy to calculate) constraint would be how large your triangles are relative to the cross section and thickness of the pipe wall. Thinner and bigger (same weight) is actually stronger, up to the crumpling point, known as the "beer can effect" (the actual technical term)... but you won't have much play with that, you'll have to buy what pipes you can. So, just find out what anyone built their dome with, and, if you're using heavier and thicker and stronger pipe, find out by how much, and you can make your triangles that much larger, roughly, linearly.

Can't tell what you're talking about in point 8. Explain more.

Dome with a basement, sure, go for it. The dome structure doesn't really need to go down into the basement. Sitting on the foundation is fine, just don't dig out the basement too too close to the foundation supports.

For tooling presses. Just make it a 2-part process. Otherwise, think about it. You'll have a round tube that you are placing a punch into while it's still round... try to puncture through X inches, and then flatter after. It's going to try to skip around off the round surface. Else, you need a flat punch that, at the end of the cycle after flattening, has a moveable internal round punch to punch the hole. Too complicated. You can drill flattened galvanized steel easy with a drill press. Just do that.

To build a squashing punch, it's not hard. You could use a tree stump/anvil and a sledge hammer if you wanted, it'd only be a couple smacks each. A few hours work. If you want a squashing device, leverage is the key. Get a chunk of hardwood or steel (steel's better), a big chunk of wood or another bar of steel for the level, and a bolt for the hinge. Look up "garlic press" if you can't picture the mechanism. Same deal. For ease of use, add a depth-stopper and a groove to hold the pipes, so you don't have to fiddle, just slam 'em in and pull the lever, they'll already be lined up. Maybe it'd make sense to have a spring mounted that could just barely lift the weight of the handle, so you can just let go and it will stay up on its own, rather than having to hold it up while you slide a pipe into the crushing slot. There's also actual "presses" you can buy, A-frame, H-frame, etc, they're usually hydraulic (hand-powered hydraulic) and very slow but very powerful ( could easily snap 1/4' spring steel on even the smallest press). But meh to that.

All said, domes are a pain in the ass. Unless you're set on them, just build something with square walls. You get more and better usable space. For as easy as domes are structurally, they're absolute hell for everything else, like paneling, insulating, etc because you need to cut magic triangles rather than nice and easy flat rectangles.

With domes you actually get more space for the material used, but more is not necessarily better. Being able to effectively use the space is tougher when most thing you buy to put in it are square. I read somewhere that dome structures require about 60% of the material to build a similar traditional structure. I have never built a dome, so take it for what it's worth. There is a lot of info on wikipedia, including a list of disadvantages. Just search for geodesic dome.

Thanks for the answer.

So here's my update. I did really well on my GREs, and I'm getting my applications ready for grad schools now. They're due by Dec. 1st (plenty of time, I just have to fill out the application and write my letters of intent.)

Thanks CaptnAwesome for the answer. I'll take your advice.

As for the sewage. We had a sewage tank at my old house, but it was an actual TANK, then it got pumped SOMEWHERE. So I guess that SOMEWHERE is what I should make. (I used to live in rural PA) I think it was called a leach field. (Yes it is, and it looks just like normal drainage ditches. I wonder if I can preform a perk test myself.) As for grey water, I dunno. I'm not sure how well plants would like the soap. I wonder if I could make some kind of all natural soap...

As for the press. I wanted to make an automatic hydraulic one (manual ones are too slow). Maybe I could have 2 inserts, stage one and stage two. Stage one will crush the pipe right where I want to cut it. Stage two will cut the pipe and put 2 holes in it, making the ends of two pipes. I'm big into working smarter, not necessarily harder. And apparently cutting and pressing the pipes are some of the most annoying parts of building a dome. Unlike Jaimie, I won't make a flat log for stairs with an axe even though I have a lumber mill cause I feel like it (No offense Jaimie) But then again, if it comes to it, a manual one with a large lever will work just as well. I don't really like the stump and sledgehammer idea. Not that I couldn't do it, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and I'd want my tubes to look similar at least; (Actually, I could build a "form" that I place over the tube before I whack it with the sledgehammer, so it is the correct shape afterwards.)

I would like to build a lumber mill as well. That thing is incredible, and gives you extremely cheap wood. Great to build floors with. I'm sure I could rent some sort of floor sander afterwards so it's not prickly or what not. (Or just put some kind of flooring down.)

As for the foundation. That's probably the most important part of the project. Seems like there are a few different types of foundations you can do. Slab on grade (concrete on the ground), basement (obvious), and crawlspace (also obvious). For me, it's between an actual basement (hard) or slab on grade (medium difficulty). The crushed stone is optional for housebuilding. (But probably a good idea.) If I can somehow rent something to dig a basement with, I'll do it. The again, that might not be possible if I'm in the mountains living on top of a giant rock. If I can dig/rent a digger and I do end up with a basement, I'd use cinderblock walls then attach the dome to the tops of those (like they do in normal houses.) The only question I have is... how the heck did he mix those bags of concrete quick enough? Because technically a concrete slab is poured all at once because it's MUCH stronger that way. Bring friends? That'd be a lot of concrete. And it's not like you could get a concrete truck to a place like jaimies. Maybe I'd have to build a driveway first. (I just looked up price differences between bags of concrete and a truck.. )


I understand the disadvantages of building a dome vs. a traditional square building. But that's the thing. They are cheaper to build. The rest is just a pain. Not more expensive, just more time consuming. I can do time consuming. I can't do expensive If I build a jig for cutting the panels it shouldn't be too hard.

As for how I'm going to cover the dome? Well, according to some of Jaimie's recent (maybe?) videos, he covered his dome with a semi-transparent tarp. I think that's what I'm going to do. Of course, I'd have to have some support under the tarp for the top of the dome, or else snow would push the tarp between the tubes, but that's not a problem. Sure, that'll suck for insulation, but it'll be good because it'll work quickly. I can do the insulation after it's built.

As for how I'm going to heat the place? I plan on using a wood stove. I forget the exact type but basically it's a wood stove inside of a BUNCH of bricks. The smoke from the fire goes back and forth in the bricks, so the bricks absorb the heat. Then they give off heat, even long after the fire goes out (great for night time). I MIGHT even put a stainless steel water tank in there as well (because water is very good for storing heat.) Not only would that make it more efficient, but it'd also give me hot water! Of course the tank would need pressure release valves and what not. ALSO, hot water can be used in old style house radiators to heat other parts of the dome (away from the fire.) Pipes would need to be insulated though. As for where the water comes from? Well, the property I'd buy would have to have some sort of stream/creek running through it. I'd also collect rain water. It'd all need to be treated of course, but it shouldn't be too bad.

Ok, I think I'm done for now, back to writing letters of intent.

Interesting ideas. You are right that the foundation is the most important part. I saw a video on youTube once where someone constructing a dome was trying to correct for their poor foundation after the fact. You definitely don't want to go that route. Do it right the first time.

sjvsworldtour wrote:Interesting ideas. You are right that the foundation is the most important part. I saw a video on youTube once where someone constructing a dome was trying to correct for their poor foundation after the fact. You definitely don't want to go that route. Do it right the first time.

Agreed. The big thing is that a masonry heater (what I was talking about before) is VERY heavy. So I'd most likely have to put an extra footing under where it's going to go. I've read lots of foundation building guides, looked into the engineering behind them, looked at types of concrete etc. With the knowledge I have now, I think I can successfully build a foundation that would last a very long time.

Also, this sounds weird but I was thinking of doing a doughnut shaped basement (if I do a basement). Because I want the masonry heater on the first floor (ground level). There is no way I'd be able to have it on top of floor joists. So I'd dig out in a circle, but leave the earth in the middle, then build a wall around the middle, and along the outside. So it would look like a doughnut with a square center. That way the masonry heater would get the support of not only the wall, but also the earth under neath it. The only thing is that it can't be fill, it'd have to just be compacted land, untouched or else the dirt would compact and the entire weight would be sitting on the walls. (Which should be able to hold it anyway, but I'd rather not have them do it)

Honestly I have NO idea if a doughnut shaped basement is possible, but it's an idea.

It's an idea, although it would seem like there would be a better solution. Having something like that in the basement eats up a lot of space. I would be thinking about something else to support that weight. Better to have some poles in the middle of the basement than a big chunk of earth.

Just put the heater in the basement instead of a foundation for a heater. Cheaper, easier, and heat rises for free!

Update:

I'm getting really excited. I've applied to a couple of different schools within the past week. I still have... 4 to apply to, but I should finish that this weekend. Anyway, I've started looking at land for sale near the schools that I'm looking at and there are a LOT of 20-30 acre lots for a reasonable price. (Something I could put 20% down on comfortably.) I thought land was going to be hard to find but apparently it's not that bad.

Anyway, that's REALLY exciting for a couple of reasons. First, there is land out there I am interested in. Second, I can afford the land. And, with land that cheap I'll be able to afford the mortgage too. Even on a student's stipend. (And I can always work if I need to.)

Question for anyone who knows, for most mountainous property, would there be a stream running through it? Or would I specifically have to make sure there was one?

If I do buy land to build this dome on, it'd be in the spring, once the weather breaks a bit. I can clear trees in the cold, but I cannot pour foundations. So it'd probably be tight for me pouring foundation + building dome + building heater then going to school. I think I'd probably end up making the bars for the dome before I actually pour the foundation, just to wait for the weather to get warmer. Actually, now that I think about it, I could even start building the dome before the foundation. Just keep it light enough that I can hoist or lift it on to the bars that will be imbedded into the concrete. OR, I could build the dome from the top down, and lift it as I build it. It might get really heavy though, and that'd put weird stresses on the ends of the bars that I might not want to have. (As they'd be sitting on the ground.) Maybe I could rig up a crane from a nearby tree with a bunch of pullies and (very) strong rope. Of course I'd have to calculate the tension applied to the rope and... I'm rambling. I'll stop.

Also, I think I've decided to just build a slab on grade foundation for a couple of reasons. I mainly wanted to basement for cold storage/root cellar. But apparently I can build those just out of a whole in the ground. Second, it'd be MUCH easier to build a slab on grade. (Not to mention cheaper.) So, I'll just put the masonry heater in the middle of the first floor. I'll still add an extra footer under where it will go though, so that the concrete will be double (or more) thick there.