jamius.com

I think this is one of the few places I can actually talk about politics and the thread not get black holed!

Anyway, I've always hated politics. I can't stand people who promise to do this and promise to work on that but nothing ever gets done. I mean many politicians have been known to go to one city saying they believe in one thing (take hot topics like abortion for example), then go somewhere else and say something TOTALLY different! I'm sure I could find examples but it's too nice of a day to be inside for long today.

I just honestly think something needs to be done with the government in general. We spend SO much money on systems that people abuse (welfare and unemployment for example), yet we are what... 14 trillion dollars in debt? How is that even possible? Yet these systems would NEVER get attacked because any politician who wanted to do something about it would NEVER get elected because they would lose all the votes of the people who ARE abusing them. It's a viscous circle! Yes, I support these programs for what they are intended to do. But when someone takes 2 years off of work (on unemployment) because they want to sit around and do nothing, that makes me angry. People on unemployment should HAVE to have a job interview at least once a week. (Hey, maybe they do, I don't know). Heck, one of my coworkers was debating trying to get fired so he could get unemployment to fund his trip around the US. Who even thinks of that?

Don't even get me started on unions.... Unions were created during the great depression (I think) so that people could get FAIR wages and DECENT working conditions. Today, people just use them to muscle more money out of their employers. I see what some of the people make in union jobs, it's ridiculous. Pay raises and incentives should be based on HARD WORK and DEDICATION, not lazyness and complaining. I know I'm generalizing, and I apologize to anyone out there that does union work and is a good worker, but most of the union workers I see are EXTREMELY LAZY! They take their "fifteen" minute break every 2 hours. They take an hour lunch, they work extremely slow. All the while I'm doing twice as much work as they are yet getting paid less than half what they're making. And the company wonders why we don't make any money anymore!

I'll tell you how I was personally affected by unions.

When I was in high school, the teacher's union at my school picketed for 2 weeks at a time. (Cause that's they longest they were allowed to, by union rules I believe). Yet, they did this a couple of times, pushing my graduation date back further and further. Do you want to know what they were striking over? They wanted to pay for LESS insurance. They thought the insurance they were given was too inclusive, and they wanted cheaper, less inclusive insurance. My sister is a teacher (not there), I know what she pays for insurance. It's NOTHING compared to what most people pay. It's absolutely RIDICULOUS that teachers have the right to jeopardize kid's education based on something so MEANINGLESS! They were arguing over dollars! Not hundreds of dollars! DOLLARS! Why do we even HAVE teacher's unions? Do they have bad working conditions? No. They have one of the best work schedules I could ever imagine. Having the entire summer off. Give me a freaking break.

Pay should be based on how well you work. If you don't like how much your employer is paying you, and you're a hard worker that has asked for a raise, then find another place to work. Or at least threaten to! When enough people leave that place for not paying them enough, they will have to pay their employees more. If you are a VALUED employee, your employer will WANT to keep you there. Ugh...

Anyway, Jaimie if you want to lock the thread or black hole it fine, but these are my beliefs. And from watching your videos, I think you have similar ones (although not on the same subjects), so I figured I'd throw this out there.

If anyone wants to disprove my beliefs or contradict me, feel free. I haven't researched these things, so hey, I may be totally wrong. If I am feel free to correct me.

Bulk of the money is going to wars overseas - Afghanistan, Iraq, bases anywhere and everywhere. You want to cut the big waste that's dragging us down, start there. Everything else, yes including those greedy unionized firefighters, is chump change in comparison.

There's a difference between politics and politicians. And politics from country to country anyway. I believe that the US is founded on a flawed system, even or at least the system HAS become flawed, with corporatism, two-party system, bipartisanship and mass-lobbying and whatnot (and the Republicans).

Yeah, from a political point of view, I'm not so fond of the US. It's a shame that the political scene there has to be such a mess.

Scodiddly wrote:Bulk of the money is going to wars overseas - Afghanistan, Iraq, bases anywhere and everywhere. You want to cut the big waste that's dragging us down, start there. Everything else, yes including those greedy unionized firefighters, is chump change in comparison.

Hey, like the aid programs, I support people that deserve unions. Firefighters for one. No one would want to pay them otherwise. Until they needed them of course. Did you ever hear the news story about the guy who didn't pay his firefighter's tax for years, and when his house caught on fire the fireman showed up, and let it burn to the ground?

Most other unions though, heck no. And yes, we are spending a ton of money overseas for something I feel we shouldn't have had our noses in the first place.

Politics is a dangerous subject because people are very opinionated and have very valid points to make. The problem is, most people do not realize the game that is being played. Politics has absolutely nothing to do with whether this group should be taxed more or that person should have to work or wars or any of that. None of the arguments have anything to do with politics. Politics is all about getting elected and that is it. It is about buying your votes.

People that describe the evil of "big" whatever are playing the game. They are trying to create an us them relationship. They want someone to blame for our problems. After all, blaming is the best way to fix a problem, right? We need big business and big business needs us. We need the rich and the rich need us. We don't need to punish the rich or big business because that is exactly why all the jobs are going overseas. Why do the jobs leave? Because you voted for them to leave. You get what you ask for.

I don't want to get too much into this, but there is no difference between a republican or democrat. I am talking the politicians, not the unwashed masses that follow them. There is a reason to have the two party system. It is very simple. Tell the people what they want to hear to get elected and then when things don't turn out so well, blame the other party. That is the purpose of the two party system. There is always someone to blame.

Basically politics is about buying your vote and ensuring there is a permanent lower class that can be bought. That is politics and that is why I choose not to believe in it.

I am not sure where the idea that the military is where the most money is being spent. Entitlements have far outweighed the military budget for a long time.

http://www.federalbudget.com/

About discussions about politics in general.

Politics is a difficult subject, and I'm reasonably sure only a small closed circle of people are in a position powerful enough to see the vast number of issues and variables and smart enough to make sense of them. Very few actually have the knowledge to be able to make an informed statement about politics. Probably only politicians themselves, academics, political advisors and the high level 'technicians' involved with the matter know enough to be able to say something about it.

The best that ordinary people like us could do is parrot the opinion of someone who DOES know what he's talking about, or make vague statements which we form from the small trickle of information that drops out after all the filters the media puts on it.

I'm not saying people are dumb. Most people just don't have the information and skills to make a relevant opinion. Would you ask an accountant to help you engineer a robot? I'd rather just leave politics discussions to the people qualified to talk about it, thanks.

x0-000 wrote:About discussions about politics in general.

Politics is a difficult subject, and I'm reasonably sure only a small closed circle of people are in a position powerful enough to see the vast number of issues and variables and smart enough to make sense of them. Very few actually have the knowledge to be able to make an informed statement about politics. Probably only politicians themselves, academics, political advisors and the high level 'technicians' involved with the matter know enough to be able to say something about it.

The best that ordinary people like us could do is parrot the opinion of someone who DOES know what he's talking about, or make vague statements which we form from the small trickle of information that drops out after all the filters the media puts on it.

I'm not saying people are dumb. Most people just don't have the information and skills to make a relevant opinion. Would you ask an accountant to help you engineer a robot? I'd rather just leave politics discussions to the people qualified to talk about it, thanks.

I'm not being combative, so please don't take this the wrong way.

But by your reasoning, nobody should talk about politics except the top government officials, and the small closed circle of people? So we shouldn't talk about our own government? We should let that small circle of people make all of our political decisions?

Maybe it's just a terminology problem. Maybe everyone in the world should just start changing out "politics" with "lying". Examples:

"I'm a professional politician."
becomes
"I'm a professional liar."

"The project came to a standstill due to political problems."
becomes
"The project came to a standstill due to honesty problems."

It seems simpler and more direct.

A bit more seriously: I've had the opportunity to see "politics" inside large corporations a bit. I've come to the simple belief that "big groups make people stupid". One person with a vision can accomplish amazing things. A small number of people who treat each other with respect, listen to each other, and work together as a team can accomplish amazing things. But get a few hundred people together and it just becomes a mess (sometimes even a few dozen).

There are always "bad eggs" in any group. At some point they make the decision to be dishonest and immoral. They find ways to use lies to take what should not be theirs (free lunch). Because of the size of the group, they may go un-noticed for a while. Then they multiply.

In a small group, this kind of thing doesn't happen nearly as easily. It's obvious if one person isn't pulling their weight or stealing from the group at large. That person is either corrected through embarrassment and becomes a positive member of the group; or they are ejected.

If the group is in the thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions....the problem is that much worse. To me, this is the problem with politics, political parties, corporations, etc. It's just a part of human nature that we have to find a way to work around.

Of course; understanding the problem doesn't always lead to a useful solution. I guess for me I just try to work toward goals with small groups and stay out of the big group politics as much as possible.

MK500 wrote:A bit more seriously: I've had the opportunity to see "politics" inside large corporations a bit. I've come to the simple belief that "big groups make people stupid". One person with a vision can accomplish amazing things. A small number of people who treat each other with respect, listen to each other, and work together as a team can accomplish amazing things. But get a few hundred people together and it just becomes a mess (sometimes even a few dozen).

There are always "bad eggs" in any group. At some point they make the decision to be dishonest and immoral. They find ways to use lies to take what should not be theirs (free lunch). Because of the size of the group, they may go un-noticed for a while. Then they multiply.

This!

Working in a big company, we've had to correct the "mistakes" of our previous bosses. People who simply didn't care, pointed fingers and never owned up to a problem. Sometimes they were just lazy, applying one fix to an entire group of problems, which then caused more problems in the next generation. Everybody points fingers and nothing gets done. It's stupid, somebody own up, take the hit, and fix the problem. There, now it's a non-issue.

It's even worse when it comes to out customers. (Yes this does fall into business politics). At ANY sort of problem, our customers will come crying to us that our product sucks, even if it has been good for YEARS in the past (and we're giving them the same product). Most of the time it is not the product, but the way in which the product was applied. We give the customer specs on how to apply the product, if they don't do it correctly, there is no warranty. Yet they still blame it on us. In the past, our company would just take the hit and pay out whatever needed to be done. But now, we are actually disputing them and (I'm guessing) 90% of the problems are not with the product itself! (And the other 10% are generally simple, yet expensive, mistakes somebody made.)

Maybe I just hate politics because I hate dishonesty and trickery. Tell me the truth and I'll support you. Try to butter me up, dance around the issue, and give sly answers, and you'll never have my vote.